Volume 2, Issue 5, October 1999




9th November (Tuesday) - Ron Roffey, on the RACS Museum in Woolwich.
The AGM will now be held in January - see below.

11th January 2000 - Annual General Meeting followed by Jack Vaughan on Woolwich Arsenal

8th February 2000 - Hugh Lyon on Greenwich and Woolwich Tunnels and Ferries

14th March 2000 - Dr.Rodney Dobson (Hon. Research Fellow Goldsmiths College) on Early Labour Troubles on the Thames

All meetings at 7.30pm and held at East Greenwich Community Centre/Christchurch Forum, Christchurch Way, SE10

Christchurch Forum and East Greenwich Community Centre have now merged.


Ha'penny Hatch - there is to be a new footbridge across Deptford Creek alongside the railway line - recreating the old Ha'penny Hatch bridge which originally accompanied the railway there. Creekside are congratulating Simon Bailey who is getting the project underway, The money to build the bridge is now available and Greenwich Engineering Services are the project managers. Hopefully the bridge will be built this year.

Hoy Stairs - A boaters and boating group is being set up to implement new access to the creek at Hoy Stairs. Fairview Homes, who are developing the site, are supportive of this project but need to get the necessary legal permissions.


The Molassine Factory stood on the Greenwich Peninsula until the early 1980s. John Needs has sent us some information about the works.

First he refers to A History of the United Molasses Co Ltd. by W. A. Meneight (1977 Seel House Press Ltd). This describes how Molassine was created in 1900 to exploit a secret formula for animal feed. The formula had been brought to Britain by Arthur Stein 'a mid-European probably hailing from one of the Balkan States'. At first the feed was made up by Henry Tate but in 1908 they began work in Greenwich. The molasses was bought locally from Silvertown and Plaistow refineries and the company built the first steel tanks for molasses bought from Danks, Steam Boiler Manufacturers, between 1910-1914. Their main product was a molasses-based feed for horses - this consisted of sphagnum moss mixed with both beet and cane molasses and a 'soupçon of maganesium calcum carbonate'. In the First World War this feed was considered antiseptic and soldiers used it as a plaster for wounds.

In the 1930s, 3,000 tons of molasses escaped and 'made its ponderous but inexorable way into the neighbouring Tunnel Avenue' to run down through the gully between the tram lines - thus effectively gumming up the trams. After this incident Molassine replaced all its cast iron valves with cast steel.

Customers were supplied by road tankers and from 1959 they had their own fleet. At the same time they agreed with Shell to store hydrocarbon fuel oils for south-eastern distribution and nine more tanks were built on site to a total water capacity of 21,000 tons. This resulted in the formation in 1968 of Blackwall Gases Ltd. to store Shell propane and butane liquid gases. Molassine also acquired Primrose Wharf, a dry storage and transport company - mostly coffee plus a bonded warehouse for safety matches.

John then adds some of his own notes and memories:

Original registration as a company was on 5th February 1907 as The Molassine Company (1907) Ltd. The name was changed on 5th June 1908 to The Molassine Company Ltd. and it was changed again on 25th May 1978 to Tate and Lyle Feeds Ltd..

Albert Stein was the inventor of the animal feed known as Molassine Meal - he was last heard of in Praha, Prague, in 1939. Efforts to trace him after the war in Europe were not successful.

Although techniques and machinery changed over the years the cattle feed remained a simple mixture of molasses and sphagnum moss (peat) - the skill was in the mixing of these two very different raw materials. In the last few years of manufacture at Greenwich, before closure in 1981, a number of variations were created to maintain a shrinking market, in particular a horse food called 'Main Ring'. Sales of Molassine Meal fell as farms grew larger and the use of molasses as a direct ingredient became more usual and manageable by the farmers,

There was a story of an export of Molassine Meal to Canada in the early company days which fermented when it became wet, heated up and caused considerable damage to the ship. Shipping companies then banned the product from extended voyages which restricted many export opportunities,

The dog food business of Molassine was based on a hard pink biscuit called VIMS,. It was made from ordinary flour with additions of aniseed and colouring. The advertising slogan was 'Dogs Love Vims' and some older pet food shops still display the black and yellow adverts - they were permanently affixed to shop windows in the form of a top and side pelmet. Only removal of the whole glass window could remove the advert. Black and white Norman Wisdom films of the 1960s contain Vims dogs food adverts - sometimes as part of a plot.

Other dog food products were STIMO, a collection of broken biscuits in a variety of colours, but predominately pink from the Vims production and also a larger white biscuit called PET BISCUITS. These later biscuits were to be produced for a few years in the 1970s with limited success despite considerable advertising featuring Petula Clark,

Another product in the 1930s to 1960s was a fertiliser for the gardener - RITO - based on the rougher pieces of sphagnum moss not suitable for animal feed, a few basic chemicals and yard sweepings.

The whole history of Molassine appears to be involved with Tate and Lyle. What goes around, comes around!

Between 1900 and about 1908 Henry Tate manufactured Molassine Meal on behalf of the Company. Molasses was purchased from both Henry Tate and Abraham Lyle both before and after 1921 - the year in which they joined forces to become Tate and Lyle Ltd. As molasses became a world commodity, purchases were made from United Molasses Company and this company was eventually acquired by Tate and Lyle. In 1971 Molassine was acquired on behalf of United Molasses by its parent company, Tate and Lyle Ltd. In 1981 the animal feed business at Greenwich was closed and sold to a company called RUMENCO Ltd. at Burton on Trent. They continued to manufacture Molassine Meal and Main Ring under those trade names at their Burton factory, having taken the machinery from Greenwich.

In about 1990 Rumenco Ltd. was acquired on behalf of United Molasses by its parent company Tate and Lyle Ltd. Manufacturer of Molassine Meal and Main Ring continued, although that of Molassine Meal is of a very low annual tonnage. The site at Greenwich which had been partly converted to a chemical storage area of UNALO (a United Molassine company) initially continued there, but is now part of the Hays Chemical Company and not part of Tate and Lyle Group.

Much of the original area is now occupied by Amylum for storage of both liquids and dry goods. Amylum is now part of Tate and Lyle Group. Tate and Lyle (in its various guises) has therefore been associated with the manufacture of Molassine Meal for almost all this century - only between 1981 and 1990 did it not have a major influence on production. The site at Greenwich continued to have Tate and Lyle occupancy. Other occupants of the the Amylum Site included Monks Glass Custard Powder and Williams Steel Stockholders.


Some of the jobs required entry to the Danger Buildings. These were a series of wooden huts of relatively light construction surrounded by high earth banks and joined by wooden walkways a couple of feet from the ground. These walkways were known as a "clean" area whereas off the walkways was the "dirty" area. Access could only be attained through the dirty/clean building where all smoking, snuff taking and metal articles had to be left and one had to put on special nailless overshoes as one stepped one foot at a time over the barrier from dirty to clean. One step off the "clean" walkway, one became "dirty" and was not allowed back. During my time there was an explosion in one building, the walls embedded themselves in the earth banks and the roof fell back to the floor. Unfortunately there were some deaths.

My next move was to the mechanical test house for a month. There was little for an apprentice to do here apart from watching slinging ropes and chains being tested for load bearing, odd samples of metal being broken and tested for hardness on a Vickers diamond machine - we were only allowed to watch not to be involved. After one had finished ones homework there was a drawerfull of western magazines. One day, an apprentice (who shall remain nameless) had an idea to brighten things up. In the middle of the wide roadway between the Test House and the Power Station was a toilet built from corrugated iron and flushed, continually, by a stream running underneath into a sewer emptying into the river. First thing every morning the toilet was full of newspaper readers, so the apprentice had the idea of making a paper boat, putting some paraffin soaked cotton waste in it and floating it, alight, in the stream. Irate men and corrugated iron in contact gave a good illustration of pandemonium.

At the end of the month I moved to the erecting bay of the Main Machine Shop, where I spent most of my time building Mk.1 Dragons. These were gun-towing tractors that held a gun crew of six, powered by a 4 litre Meadows engine driving through a Wilson pre-selector gearbox to a front axle having two steering clutches. They were full - track vehicles with a top speed, unloaded, of about 30 m.p.h. Holes in the hull were drilled with air powered drills having four cylinders in V formation, they were quite heavy and to get faster drilling it was the practice to slip a plank into a rope loop, tied to a convenient point, and to lean on the other end giving a leverage of around 4 to 1 on the drill. Owen Stott, a large Welshman, was the ganger and he took the finished Dragons out on test with an apprentice as mate. Between the Danger Buildings and Plumstead Road was a tank testing area with built-up single figure gradients and crossed by a railway line. Owen's joy was to spot a rabbit and chase it full speed over the testing ground - one soon learnt to hang on tight when this happened. Owen gave me another lesson I have never forgotten. The Meadows engine had a ducted radiator at the rear that included an oil cooler. One leaked and I was given the job of replacing it. After the new cooler was installed I was running the engine to see the cooler was not leaking and concentrating very near the unguarded fan. Owen saw the danger and tossed a scrumpled sheet of newspaper into the fan. This produced a white explosive blur and I shot out over the three foot high hull side in one bound. You won't find me near an unguarded fan again.

Another job in the erecting bay was using a hammer and chisel to cut flat surfaces on the sides of the cast iron pintle mountings of 6 inch coast defence guns for the addition of the, then new - fangled, predictor gear. There was also the scraping of the flat surfaces on the saddles of 2 pounder anti-tank guns, a nice little gun that was too weak for it's intended work.

A lightweight tank was interesting in having two A.E.C. bus engines on their sides under the floor and as much of the interior as possible made in light alloy. Securing armour plate to magnesium alloy framework with red - hot rivets was worth watching; it took three men, one to hold the rivet gun, one to hold the rivet snap and one with a lump of sacking to put out the fire! All the joints had to have at least two right angles, since a lead bullet would squirt through one right angle joint. That's why tank armour is all one piece or welded together without joints.

Pattern making made a change from dealing with metal. My mentor was Tom Hammet, a craftsman of the old school with only a few years to go before retirement. He had three ex-Arsenal interests, making string musical instruments, playing his homemade double bass in a local orchestra and being a Methodist lay preacher. To Tom, Picture Post was utter pornography. He had the honest pride in his craftsmanship, once he made a small mistake in a 2 inch diameter core box, some eight inches long, cutting too deep less than a sixteenth of an inch, over an area of about a square inch. Although he was on piecework, he neatly cut out the offending area and inserted a new piece even matching the grain, though it would have several coats of paint and varnish over it.

Piecework was a system of payment whereby each job came with a card bearing the price that that job would earn. That price was set by the "pricefixer" who was supposed to know exactly how long a job should take. Thereby began a number of arguments. There was a minimum wage that a man was expected to at least equal by adding the prices of the jobs he had done during the week. If he consistently did not, there was a fair chance of his "getting his cards". A reasonably skilled man could exceed the minimum and he could be paid for all the work he had done up to a set limit. This limit was, I think, about one and a half times the standard wage. A good man could exceed this and Saturday mornings would see men shuffling the cards to get as near the maximum as possible and leaving the remaining cards for following weeks. This caused problems if a man left, as he probably had several weeks work done and the cards for it that had not been counted. Apprentices were not on piecework, though occasionally one of the more senior, on a repetitive job, would go on to earn a little more money. If a man had an apprentice, adjustments were made for either instructing time or money earned for him by the apprentice. Most of the time it probably balanced out.

Greenwich Conservation Group

- with thanks to Philip Binns

Royal Arsenal - use as Park and Ride Site for Millennium Experience. Group has no objection to this but wonders why there is a need to 'ride' since the site is adjacent to Woolwich Arsenal Station from where trains go to Charlton!

Royal Arsenal Buildings 17, 18, & 40 - Works to create a museum, library and archive. Welcome this, but ask for note to be taken of apparatus for fuse testing on the south wall of the west wing of Building 40 - this equipment should be retained in situ. The group felt that the use of rendered panels and glazing was more effective than replicating the brickwork on the main buildings. Pleased to see that for the first time in English Partnerships's auspices at the Arsenal that a conservation architect of the highest standing is being employed. Hopefully this will be the start of the use of other such specialists in the refurbishment of the listed buildings in the Arsenal. Not enough details on proposals given.

7 Peyton Place - change of use of former joiners' shop to family home. Group hoped all steps had been taken to find an alternative industrial user.

Royal Arsenal - provision of new passenger pier. with pontoon, brow/bridge and landside ramp. Welcomed, but felt treatment was unsatisfactory for the location. Crude structure would dominate listed guardhouses. Why could it not be upstream between two? A crude 'engineers' solution,

Cambridge House, Cambridge Row, SE19 - change of use of ex-industrial building to a 138-bed hostel for refugees, Would not want to weaken its appearance which is a fine 1920s industrial structure. Not enough details.


Evidence for post-medieval flooding up to the nineteenth century in Deptford has been found in several excavations and evaluations in the vicinity. In 1514 the Thames was said to have flooded Church Marsh three times within the last eight years. A breach in the riverwall at Crooked Acre in Stowage Marsh was caused by a flood of water from the land side in 1576. Flooding by the Thames in 1625 threatened the East India Company's gunpowder store, and in December 1626 broke open the gates of the Company's dock. Floods penetrated as far as Upper Deptford in 1651 and 1671. The flood of 1824 came down the Ravensbourne and swept away many houses and warehouses on each side of Deptford Bridge, and also the Tide Mill.

The effort to protect the marshlands from the rising waters of the Thames and the Creek required frequent repairs to the river embankments in the sixteenth century, overseen by the Sewer Commissioners. Often the owners were required to pile and plank their river walls, and level up the ground behind. According to William Lambard in 1576, the River Ravensbourne 'slippeth by this Towne into the Thamyse, carying continuall matter of a great Shelfe with it'. Shoals of alluvium accumulated in the Creek and the Sewer Commissioners ordered their removal. In 1597 these were causing the river to shift its course off the Slaughterhouse and Walnuttree Acre.

In the sixteenth century, river walls and wharves were established along the waterfront at about 3.5mOD and successively heightened. In the seventeenth century wharves along the Thames were increased in height to counteract the effects of the high tide. Between 1627 and 1636 Christopher Brown repaired the river walls in Deptford Strand at the expense of the Royal Household, in order to protect the pastures used to graze the King's cattle. From the late seventeenth century onwards a dock and a wharf at Half Lanch Wharf, on the West Side of the Creek - on the site of the waste depot - served the Copperas works and other adjacent industries. A lease of land just downstream of this in 1759 forbade any development of the river wall or the land behind it. Almost the whole length of both banks of the Creek was still lined with earthen embankments in the 1770s.

There were osier beds in several places along the Creek between the sixteenth and nineteenth centuries. There is evidence for them near the Tide Mill - on the site of the Skill Centre - in 1576; south across the Creek in 1588; near the Slaughterhouse and also in unspecified locations in 1608, around the peninsula on the east side of the Creek mouth and on the west bank in 1777; and surviving into the 1840s adjacent to the Tide Mill. The early modern Creek was sufficiently friendly to wildlife to contain otters - one was shot here in 1684.

At the north end of Deptford Green, the Skinners Place property was leased to Lord Howard of Effingham, Admiral of England, in the late sixteenth century, and this appears to be the origin of the Lord High Admiral's official residence on the Green in the seventeenth century. It had two wharves with yards, several gardens enclosed with a brick wall, a barn and a stable, and a number, of houses held by sub-tenants. The main house was rebuilt shortly before 1568. This building later became the Gun Tavern and in 1807 it was converted into dwellings and warehouses owned by Messrs Gordon, Biddulph and Stanley, anchorsmiths. The property later passed to the General Steam Navigation Company.

The economy of Deptford was given its first great boost by Henry VIll's decision to found a Royal Dockyard there for the construc-ion of his ships. Lambard wrote that "This towne was of none estimation at all until King Henrie the eight advised (for the better preservation of the Royall fleete) to erect a storehouse, and to create certaine officers there". The Dockyard was built up around the nucleus of a storehouse for naval supplies built in 1513.

In 1517 the old pond at Deptford Strand was probably adapted as a basin to house several of the King's ships. Other moorings were used for the Royal ships. In 1521 the John the Baptist and the Barbara lay together in Deptford Creek, and the Great Nicholas at the east end of Deptford Strand. The Dockyard continued to expand throughout the sixteenth and seventeenth centuries, employing ever greater numbers of men, but was outstripped by other naval dockyards from the eighteenth century onwards because the silting of the Thames formed shoals in front of it. Nevertheless it was enlarged in 1765, 1780 and 1796. The Dockyard was closed for ship construction in 1830, although it continued to be used for ship-breaking,and it recommenced ship building in 1844. Further extensions were proposed in the 1850s but the Dockyard finally closed in 1869. The ground was sold as the site for the Foreign Cattle Market and was redeveloped as the Pepys Estate in 1961. Its area lay some distance to the west of Deptford Strand.



In the July Blackheath Guide, Neil Rhind published a two-page article on Blackheath Station - here are some of the highlights:

July 30th this year (1999) is an important date in our community because on that exact date in 1849 Blackheath Railway station opened for passenger traffic for the first time..... In 1844 the London Chatham & North Kent Railway published a prospectus... to reach Lewisham, Blackheath and beyond. Work started in August 1845 but was constantly delayed. Tunnelling to Charlton under Morden College did not begin until September 1847.

The line was planned to be hidden in the natural valley of the Upper Kid Brook. The line ran through two large estates - that of Thomas Brandram of the Cedars, Lee and of John Cator at Blackheath Park and private bridges had to be built so that these estates were not split. As a result of this Blackheath is one of the few districts where the advent of the railway did not split the community. The much-promised service finally came into operation in July 1849. Trains ran every half-hour from London Bridge to Woolwich and hourly to Erith and then to Gravesend and Strood, from 7.30am to 10.30pm. Tickets cost 5p (lst class) 3.5p (2nd class) and 2.5p (3rd class) and an annual season ticket was £14 first class and just over £11 second.

Neil goes on to talk about the service and then describes the station which was built by a local architect, George Smith - who designed many other local buildings. This station has, unusually survived as one of the oldest operational stations in the country not to have been rebuilt or moved. Of two original gateways one survives and is still used. The first passengers had to go down to platform level to buy tickets - the ticket office at street level was built in 1879.

The original construction depot was to the south of the station and the land was later sold - to become Independents Road together with the, now renamed, Railway Tavern.

Inevitably life and work on the station did not run smoothly and Neil devotes much of the rest of his article to describing the many problems which beset the staff and passengers. An early irate gent described the staff as 'larking blackguards'. Later, in 1879, and a meeting of season ticket holders protested at 'the worst mismanagement' - Blackheath actually had the highest number of first class season ticket holders of any station owned by the Company,

A residential Station Master was appointed in 1850 and stayed in post for the next fifty years - although he had been presented with a silver salver by passengers at the end of the first ten!

W. H. Smith opened a newspaper kiosk in 1863 and sidings were built in 1879 - this is now the site of the car park and housing beyond it. In the 1880s a flower shop, tobacconist and coal office were added.

In the early 1980s local people began to be concerned about the state of disrepair into which the station had fallen and it was rescued by the Blackheath Preservation Trust and repainted in its original colours,. Neil comments that all of that careful work has been lost with privatisation.


Started by John Penn Senior about 1800 this firm originally made such things as cranes and treadmills. The treadmill was at that time a common source of power (often using convict labour) but was soon to be supplanted by steam and hydraulic power which were developed rapidly,. The first marine engine was built in the 1820s but by 1857 the firm was world famous - having several ships named after them - in this field. On the death of his father in 1843 John Penn Jnr. took over and was responsible for many important developments. In association with Francis Pettit Smith he solved in 1858 the problem of excessive wear of the stem and shearing on screw vessels by the use of lignum vitae. This material is still used on smaller vessels. Its introduction enabled the widespread use of the propeller and was the result of a long series of experiments which involved pressures as high as 8000 psi. Engines were built at Blackheath Hill and boilers at Deptford. Transport of large engines to the river was by teams of horses on traction engines and must have posed a considerable problem. As well as supplying locally built ships there was a healthy export market to countries who lacked the expertise to build their own engines and boilers. John Penn perfected the compact oscillating engine, several of these were in use on the river Danube until 1981 only being taken out of use because of their high fuel consumption. At least one survives in use on the River Elbe.

The Penn family were well known in public life in the Blackheath area and John Penn was the first President of the West Kent Microscopical Society in 1861. The firm amalgamated with the Thames Ironworks in 1899 subsequently building several of the early Dreadnought battleships. Shortly before the demise of the firm in 1912, such products as motor vehicles, electric cranes and electrical equipment were introduced in an attempt to stay in business after the decline of the shipbuilding trade. John Penn & Sons were regarded as being the finest marine engine builders in the world and the name is commemorated by John Penn Street and by the Penn and Widow Smith Almshouses in (Greenwich) South Street.


COMING SOON ........

GREENWICH: THE TWENTIETH CENTURY by Barbara Ludlow and Julian Watson, Sutton Pubs. £14.99. Over 200 photographs illustrating aspects of life in the 20th Century in the LB of Greenwich.


£9.95 by post from 24 Humber Road, SE3, £8.50 at the door.

From Deptford Forum Publishing, 441 New Cross Road, SE146TA.
£20. £10 if you live in Deptford.

There have been a number of press reports about local activities around the Labour Party centenary in 2000. In Greenwich there are plans for an exhibition about 100 years of local Labour and a small committee has been set up with representation from the three local Constituency Labour Parties. Anyone who has suitable material for exhibition or would like to contribute should either contact Mary (GIHS address at the end of the Newsletter, or by e-mail) or Beverley Burford at Plumstead Museum.



Meridian (Line) - gives news of the restoration of the Ice House at Manor Park (actually in Lewisham - but never mind - and, being in Meridian, it's only mentioned because of the effect on property prices!). They point out that the Ice House was used by the Baring, banking family, who lived at Manor House, and dates from the 1830s. It has four tunnel-vaulted chambers and an egg-shaped ice well for ice taken from the estate's pond. Meridian is distributed throughout Greenwich on a monthly basis.

Gunpowder Mills Study Group Newsletter - contains reference to GIHS member Peter Jenkins' discovery of the closing date of the gunpowder depot which once stood on the Greenwich Peninsula. Peter has looked at documents in the Public Record Office and come up with a number of references: -

February 13th, 1771: an order that lighters be sent to carry building materials 'from Greenwich Magazine to Woolwich'

April 16th, 1771 - a report tht the Magazine and Proof House 'are entirely down' and lists the remains left

April 24/25th, 1771 - a report that all the Greenwich Magazine will be taken down

May 4th, 1773 - a report about repairs to river banks on the site.

Newsletter from Alan Crocker, 6 Burwood Close, Guildford, Surrey.

Bygone Kent. Vol. 20, No.8 contains another article about Gas in Greenwich by Mary Mills. This one is Consumer Complaints and Gas in Greenwich and Vol.20, No.9 contains yet another article by Mary Mills but this one is about the Blackwall Point Dry Dock.

Bygone Kent published monthy by Meresborough Books, 17-25 Station Road, Rainham, Kent.

South East London Mercury ran a piece on 22nd September on the unveiling of a plaque to author, Italo Svevo, in Charlton Church Lane. It describes how, in 1897, he had become a partner in his father-in-law's Trieste-based paint company. He negotiated a contract for anti-corrosive paint with the Admiralty and came to Chatlton to set up a factory in Anchor and Hope Lane - hence the plaque. Further information and a picture can be found at - which is actually the web site of the Italian paint company. This describes how 'Veneziani fonda la prima fabbrica di antivegetativa all'estera Charlton in Inghilterra. A lavori vengono diretti dal genero del fondatore, Ettore Schmitzm, in arte Italo Svevo'.

SE London Mercury is published weekly and distributed throughout the Greenwich area (but not in Humber Road!)

Journal of the Ordnance Society. Vol. 11 1999. Contains an article by Mary Mills on Alexander Theophilus Blakeley - the founder of the Ordnance works on Greenwich Peninsula. Another article is by GIHS contributor John Day on The Steam Gun. This article covers the subject of steam-driven guns and in particular the work of Jacob Perkins. Readers may remember a discussion on this subject in previous issues of this Newsletter.

Ordnance Society membership officer is Dr. Ian McKenzie, 3 Maskell Way, Southwood, Farnborough, Hants.

Greater London History and Heritage. This is the latest edition of Peter Marcan's guides to local 'historical, heritage and environmental networks and publications' in Greater London. This is an exhaustive study and, of course, GIHS, is in it.

Peter Marcan Publications, PO Box 3158, London, SE1 4RA.

North West Kent Family History Society Newsletter Vol.8. No.8 September 1999. Contains an article by David Cufley on the history of Avery Hill - the location of their Autumn Conference. The article details the history of the Estate and notes its ownership by John North, the Chilean nitrates magnate.


From Listings Branch, Department for Culture Media and Sport



We are seeking advice from English Heritage. Shortly after we have received their recommendation we should be able to notify you of the Secretary of State's decision on whether the structures are to be listed.


From Ted Barr

Angerstein Works - I have been trying to arrange a visit to this derelict site in Siebert Road and have been let down on several occasions.

Silvertown Explosion - Pat O'Driscoll has suggested a book With Disastrous Consequences - London Disasters 1830-1917 by Wendy Neale (ISBN 1 874312 00 1).

Greenwich Park Branch of LCDR - for Philip Binns info. there is a good description and pictures in Holborn Viaduct to Lewisham by Vic and Keith Smith of Middleton Press, pub. 1990 and still in print.

Redpath Brown (or is it Redpath Dorman?) - Very recently the Guardian newspaper had a picture of Sydney Harbour Bridge with the caption 'Built by Cleveland'. Of course this is incorrect. It was built by Dorman Long & Co. of Middlesborough. It brings to mind that many years ago as one went northwards along Horn Lane, passing the oil installations on the right, and along the western side of Angerstein sidings, there was a notice on the left hand side Cleveland Bridge and Engineering Co.. From memory the site appeared to adjoin or be part of Redpath's premises. In these days of take-overs, buy-outs and name changes I wonder if there is a common factor in any of all this? Does anyone know?

The name 'Bellot Street' and the Bellot Memorial by the Naval College. Rightly or wrongly I've always been under the impression that little seems to be known about this. I recently came across an account of Bellot in a book now nearly 100 years old - this says that the obelisk is 'in memory of the brave young Frenchman Bellot, an officer in the French Navy, who had permission to join the English Expedition, that went out in search of Sir John Franklin. He endeared himself by his pluck and presence of mind to his English companions and on a second expedition was overtaken by a storm while making a perilous journey with two comrades across the ice, and was blown through an opening and drowned'.

From Howard Murphy (via GIHS web site)

I am interested in any information concerned with clipper ships, owners, captains, crew or anything related to them i.e. trades that were involved. All information will be appreciated. Do you know how to get crew lists for the Taeping, 1869-1895 owned by Captain Alexander Rodger and the Ariel, 1865-1872? Shaw, Lother, Maxton & Co. were her owners.

Howard Murphy,

81 George Street, Cellardyke Harbour, Anstruther, Fife, Scotland KY10 3AS

From Eileen West

I am sending you some information about the Coalite Company. I think the Coalite plant was on the Greenwich Peninsular where the branch railway line crossed River Way. The signal box was still there when I went down to Bugsby's Hole to see the Queen come up the river to open the Flood Barrier. I can also remember the building of the Coalite Plant (on license) in 1929. My father told me a lot about petrol being produced from coal - is this what they were doing at the nearby chemical plant? It must have been of good quality since they supplied the RAF and Fleet Air Arm, etc..

Believe it or not, while I was looking this up at the Family History Research Centre, I spoke to someone who asked me if I knew where Iddenden Cottages were - and I knew!

From David Saville

I hope this information is of interest. I am writing about Age Exchange's River' Project. Age Exchange Theatre Trust in Blackheath is a unique, full time, professional theatre company which specialises in creating new plays based on living memory, through arts and educational projects. We are currently working on the production of a specially written show called On the River. This new community show will be based on a series of in-depth interviews with people who either lived beside or worked along the River Thames from the 20s to the present day. The play is to be performed as part of an International Festival of Theatre in March 2000 at The Albany Theatre and Blackheath Concert Halls.

We shall assemble a inter-generational group of over 100 people to participate in the project as sources, interviewers, transcribers, editors, computer tutors, actors, designers, musicians, makers and technicians.

We are seeking to interview people with river memories. On the whole we aim to target the older generation. Some dockers for instance have reminiscences which take them back to the 20s and 30s. However, it is also relevant to interview newly apprenticed watermen/lightermen. In particular we are seeking to speak to those people who remember the Thames as a working river in its hey day. This takes us up to the Second World War and even further - perhaps to the late 50s, early 60s, when containerisation revolutionised water transportation and signalled the beginning of a rapid decline for the dock industry.

Please contact me on 0181 318 9105 or at:

River Project, Age Exchange Reminiscence Centre, 11 Blackheath Village,SE3 9LA,

From Chris Grabham

I led a walk from Blackwall Docklands Light Railway Station to Victoria Dock for the Friends of Ironbridge Gorge. It went quite well with about 120 people there. Now that they're developing the old Brunswick Wharf Power Station site you have access to the riverside there and some pretty impressive views of Greenwich. I don't know if you've been round there recently but they're calling the development 'Virginia ' and are making a feature of the monument to the Virginia Settlers. Judging by the model on display I suspect the surviving power station building will shortly be demolished to make way for 'affordable' housing. We were also fortunate to be able to climb up the Trinity Buoy Wharf Lighthouse. The Trinity Buoy Wharf site seems rather more accessible than it used to be - perhaps a suitable location for a future visit of some sort.

From Margaret Chapman

I was reading Mary Mills' interesting book Greenwich Marsh and was pleased to find, on page 66, mention of my great uncle, Tom London, was was murdered in Mombasa, while working for Telcon, There is a bit of a story attached to this but I am still hunting for information. I hope that someone researching Telcon might find some records of him. I have the name of Cable and Wireless - are they the same?

Many thanks for the information you kindly sent. I made the connection to you through some literature which recently came to the Humanities School office.

From Margaret Baum

I read with interest the request in the latest edition of 'Greenwich Industrial History' for information that can be used with regard to Riverside Audit. I have recently been studying and taking photographs of the Thames from - Galleon's Reach to the local council boundary with Bexley (Crossness) - and I would very willing to donate photographs etc, if they would useful. Please contact me if I can be of use. University of Greenwich.

From Elliot Einzig Porter (via GIHS web site)

I have seen one of your Newsletters and enjoyed it very much. I am working on undersea cable history for a book and I was wondering if your group has produced anything so far on Telegraph and Construction Maintenance Co. at Enderby's Wharf, the India Gutta Percha Telegraph Works at Silvertown, the GPO Submarine Cable Depot, or the Siemens Brothers Works in West Woolwich? Are there walking tours of any of this area?

Berkeley, California

From Ian Sharpe

Barratt East London are soon to have an American unveiling of the 1st Settlers Monument at Blackwall by the Ambassador on Sept 23rd. 1999. We in the community in Tower Hamlets did a lot of work on this and were responsible for enlightening them on the local Historic significance. I myself was given a verbal promise that I would be invited on behalf of our Group. Such an important occasion must have Community representation. Perhaps you can help too with community representation for this most important historic event.

From Neil Rhind

Blackheath Station was exactly 150 years old on July 30 1999 so we encouraged the current railway company to unveil a plaque. It is the oldest operational railway station unaltered or re-built still in use. I had a big article in the July issue of Blackheath Guide and a spread in the Mercury for July 22 or thereabouts. Blackheath Preservation Trust has now taken over the Blackheath Fire Station (Brigade House, Brigade Street) - not, alas, to restore it as a fire brigade station but as quality offices.

From Neil Richardson

I am Secretary of the Blyth Local History Society and part of the Blyth Study Group. I understand that you are interested in the coal ships which came to London from North East England? At one time Blyth was the largest shipper of coal in the country. There is still one Mineral Staith left. If you would like to know anything about the coal trade out of Blyth, please ask and I will see what can be found.

One of London's least known museums is hidden away on a trading estate in Charlton - the Metropolitan Police Museum. In response to a request for a visit we have received the following information.

From Paul Dew

We allow visitors to the Museum but normally the conditions here only make it feasible for people to come one or two at a time. and even then we generally restrict visits to members of staff, retired officers, etc. who are generally doing Police or family history research. We do not have exhibits with a link to local archaeology.

If a member wishes to contact me via New Scotland Yard about, for example, a family tree or other Police-related question, it might be possible to come to an individual arrangement.

From Geoffrey Pike

There are many points which link Greenwich with the Whitstable and Tankerton copperas industry. The Canterbury Archaeological Trust is publishing a special paper this autumn about the industry here and in Dorset. I am also hoping to produce a shorter and more 'popular' account of the industry here, in Whitstable, as a contribution to our local industry.

From Barbara Ludlow

I am moving to Kent in October but naturally will remain a member of GIHS. However I feel I must resign from the Committee and make way for a more active person. As you know I have spent a great deal of time researching the Enderby family and I understand that the Enderby Settlement Diaries are to be published in December. I will let you know if they are.

Mary writes:

The GIHS Committee would like to thank Barbara for her work in the first two years of the Society. She is a historian who commands an enormous amount of respect locally and we will all miss her a great deal. Please come back often!



Greenwich is now awash with projects putting our lives - and our industries on the stage:

Age Exchange - long established in Blackheath Village is currently working on On The River, detailed elsewhere in this newsletter. They also have a River Bank project 'for older Londoners memories of the working river'. There is a film club and tea dances are held once a month (see our events column) . Details about a Conference of the UK Reminiscence network hosted by them were received to late to be included here. Contact them on 0181 218 9105.

The Millennium Community Play is going on from strength to strength with the award of a grant of £12,000 from the Time to Celebrate Fund. Autumn workshops will run fortnightly 7.30pm-9.30 pm from 5th October. The writing skills group will run Saturday mornings at Charlton House (ring 0181 854 7008). Social Evenings will be held on the first Wednesday of each month from October 3rd at the Mitre Hotel, Greenwich High Road from 7pm. They also need MORE VOLUNTEERS. Ring 0181 852 8293 for more details.

The TIPP Reminiscence and drama project run from Rothbury Hall, and concentrating on the Greenwich Peninsula, is also well under way. An evening was held recently at which slide shows and readings were given of the work already done. An enthusiastic group took part. Ring Isobel Lilley on 0181 858 2825


The Stanley works at New Eltham closed earlier this year. It had originally been sited at South Norwood where there are considerable remains of the founder, Mr. Stanley, in the form of the Stanley Halls and clock tower as well as the original factory buildings. It is understood that a book about Stanley is in preparation under the sponsorship of the Norwood Society and as part of this project the New Eltham works was photographed before closure by the author.

Two coach loads of eager Industrial Archaeologists from all over Britain visited Woolwich Arsenal as part of their Annual Conference, held this year at Chatham, in September. GIHS Chair, Jack Vaughan, met the party at the Arsenal gates. With English Heritage's Paul Calvocoresci giving the commentary on the other coach, we lurched round the site in the care of Paul Dyer, of English Partnerships. For those who haven't seen the Arsenal site recently - there is quite literally no topsoil! It is understood that some very interesting archaeological remains have come to light - but that didn't help as we bounced from mud slides to heaps of earth.

Later, the party had a coach trip round Woolwich and went to Avery Hill for lunch where they were able to view the Winter Gardens. They all seemed to enjoy themselves!

Earlier in the Conference members had heard papers which included, Peter Guillery on the Royal Brass Foundry, Paul Calvocoresci on Woolwich Arsenal, Tim Allen on the Copperas Industry, Brian Strong on Three Mills, Malcolm Tucker on Gas Holders - it is hoped that at least some of these will make the contents of their papers available to GIHS members.

A booklet was produced for the Conference by David Eve - the Kent Sites and Monuments Officer who members may remember came to speak to GIHS last year. This lists IA sites in Kent, although sadly excludes Kentish London copies can be obtained from:

AIA Sales Officer, Barn Cottage, Bridgenorth.Shropshire WV15 6AF at £4.95 plus 50p p&p.




During the progress of the Project tensions soon began to appear. John Arnold became increasingly impatient with Dr. Sutton's detachment and inability to see the need for keeping to schedules. Sutton's reminiscences of his childhood and early career, while interesting, wasted precious time at the all too short meetings. I remember that on one occasion a map of the Woolwich Works from the 1880s was produced. In one department it showed 'winwoms'. Dr Sutton described how as a boy if he asked his father what he was doing and his father felt it was too complicated to explain, would say "I am making a winwom for a duck's foot." He had assumed it was a nonsense word. He asked Brian and me to look into this, but was persuaded that this could be left till after the meeting. Later we did make some attempt to find out what the word meant but we were not successful.

Terry restored the Master Clock to working order, and, running it off large dry cells, set it to make two torch bulbs flash in different parts of the room at thirty second intervals. John found this particularly irritating, and we agreed with Terry to disconnect the batteries.

At another meeting I mentioned in passing that, putting together two of the notices from the Science Museum exhibition, it appeared that William Siemens had been buried in Westminster Abbey eight months before his death. Dr. Sutton was particularly intrigued with this, telephoning the museum there and then, and speaking to various people, including the organiser. At least twenty minutes were spent on this exercise. He was told that none of the visitors during the six months of the display had commented on this. John Arnold was fairly abrasive to me afterwards for raising a point which led to such a waste of precious time, but we remained on good terms. On another occasion Dr. Sutton left the room to go to the lavatory but failed to re-appear. Eventually we checked the car park to discover that he had driven away, presumably forgetting that he was at a meeting.

One constant bone of contention was the decision of what to display, on which Dr. Sutton constantly changed his mind. John Arnold had plan and elevation drawings of each display cabinet, on which he stuck scale drawings of each exhibit, which were constantly being repositioned. On one occasion when Dr. Sutton wanted to introduce some new exhibits, John pointed out there was not room to accommodate them The display cabinets were already under construction and it was far to late to change them or build more. Dr. Sutton then suggested that we use some trestle tables, which were stored in the basement. John was aghast saying 'but we can't use those dirty old tables amongst our beautiful walnut display cabinets'. Dr. Sutton then suggested getting Thunder & Lightning to scrub the tables. He was eventually persuaded to drop the trestle table idea.

John Arnold became increasingly worried and tense as the deadline approached, though always good humoured. He said on several occasions "This place is really mad. Even the radiators are half way up the wall", a reference to the unusual positioning of the radiators. A lot depended on the success of the Exhibition; a fiasco would jeopardise his chances of future contracts, and a fiasco attended by a member of the Royal Family would be even more damaging.

Things were not helped by the deterioration of Terry Card's attitude. Initially, when he was rather awed to be reporting directly to a Director, his work was excellent. Later, as he realised that there was no firm control, his timekeeping became poor and his workmanship sloppy. This put Brian Rispoli and myself in a very difficult position; we had no authority over him, and he treated our attempts to pressure him with amusement. Dr. Sutton would not respond to even the broadest of hints from us. We did win a wordy battle over the Soot Writer which he had varnished with varnish unevenly mixed with gold size, resulting in a patchy ginger effect. He eventually agreed to strip and re-varnish the instrument properly. Fortunately, Brian and I remained on good terms throughout.


Deptford Power Station Jetty

The future of Deptford Power Station Jetty despite an enormous amount of discussion, feasibility studies and so on. Perhaps we all need reminding about how important that power station was in the world wide history of science and technology. A good start can be made by reading Cradle of Power a booklet brought out by CEGB to mark the closure of the power station in 1993. It is becoming a very difficult little booklet to get hold of but, we can reveal, that through some strange quirk of fate the Richard Garrett Long Shop Museum in Leinston, Norfolk has boxes and boxes and boxes of it - so many in fact that they are giving them away free to anyone who will take them - so, every one in Deptford - get up there with a couple of lorries!

So - what does Cradle of Power have to say about Deptford? 'It was 100 years ago that a young man of 23 had the vision of building a power station to supply London with electricity on a scale unheard of anywhere in the world... an idea ridiculed by eminent engineers as flying in the face of scientific disaster... Yet the Deptford Power Station which Ferranti designed was eventually to be hailed as the forerunner of today's great stations.... a story of men prepared to risk reputation and fortune in a venture where calamity seemed to dog every step..... the story of a century of change ... yet from those pioneering days of the 'new' electricity to modern times, the Deptford Stations have provided London with power.. Deptford.. The cradle of modern power.


It was with a great deal of excitement that I found recently, while looking under 'Erith' on the internet a ship, a real ship, built on the site of the Dome.

I had known for a long time that there had been ship building on the Greenwich Peninsula and known a bit about the company that built the dry dock (the remains of which have recently been scrunched by NMEC) but I had come to believe that probably no ships of any size had been built there. The dry dock itself stood slightly to the west of the Dome and was used in its latter days as a reservoir by the gas works. A capstan from it is to be in the new Museum in Docklands. The company concerned was called Stockwell and Lewis and the dock had been built around 1871 (see my article in the latest Bygone Kent). So, there is was, on the Tasmanian Government Parks' Department web site at - they had made the very easy mistake of mis-spelling the ship builders as Stackwell and Lewis.

So, Bulli lies at the northern end of West Cove in the Bass Strait in 16 metres of water. She is said to be remarkably intact and stands 5 meters off the shore. Her bow has collapsed but two thirds of her hull is intact up to the upper deck. Her bridge and engine room are still there, as are the rudder and the stern. She is seen as a specialist site for leisure diving.

I think this is a very exciting find. I know of no other Peninsula-built boats - other than sailing barge Orinoco - which are still with us. Other short articles on Bulli should appear soon in Bygone Kent and the new GLIAS Newsletter - what I really need is more information. I have a had great deal of help already and would like to thank Mike Nash in Tasmania who has been more than helpful - and Chris Grabhame who has been trying to 'grab' images across the air waves and David McGeorge and Pat O'Driscoll who have both tried very hard to get more details out of the archives. So far no luck - but we will keep on trying.

Mary Mills


This list of meetings and events has been culled from leaflets and notices brought to our attention.

If you want your meeting listed here please contact 24 Humber Road, SE3 7LR (0181 858 9482)

North Woolwich Old Station Museum
Open Friday & Sunday, 2.00-5.00pm and Saturday 10.00am-5.00pm. For details phone 0171 474 7244

THE HOUSE MILL, Three Mills Lane, Bromley By Bow
Open every Sunday 2pm-4pm for tours, May 11th - end of October
Group visits - please ring William Hill 0181 472 2829

Plumstead Museum - a vibrant selection of local exhibtions of great interest to everyone.


9th October, Docklands Treasure Hunt, Friends of Ironbridge Gorge Museum. 2.30 Tower Hill Station.

9th October, War Artists, 10.30-16.15.Open Museum Course, Nat, Maritime Museum. £26. 020 8312 6717

11th October, Barbara Ludlow on The Enderbys, 7.00 Open Museum Course, Nat, Maritime Museum. £6.50. 020 8312 6717

11th October, River Beat. History of London's River Police, G.Budworth Gravesend HS, Chantry School, Ordnance Road, Gravesend, 7.00

11th October, Diana Rimel on Woolwich Market & its surrounds. Goldsmiths College Course, 10.15am. £6

12th October Crossness. Open by appointment 9-4 Tel. 0181 311 3711

14th October, The Pluto Book, Erith LHS Carlton Hall, Bexley Road, Northumberland Heath. 7.30

15th October, Search for Extra Terrestrial Information, Blackheath Scientific Society. Mycenae House. 7.30

15th October, Jezebel, Age Exchange Classic Film Club, Bakehouse Theatre, 11 Blackheath Village, SE3. 2pm £1.50 plus tea and cake.

18th October, David Candlin on Woolwich Revival, Goldsmiths College Course, 10.15. £6

18th October, Stephen Hill on Cable Making in Greenwich, 7.00 Open Museum Course, Nat, Maritime Museum. £6.50 020 8312 6717

20th October, Peter Stokes: London, The West Country's Engineering Window to the World, GLIAS, Lecture Theatre 2 Science Block, St. Bartholomew's Medical School, Charterhouse Square, EC1. 6.30.

21st October, War Memorials of Eltham, Tony Robin. Shooters Hill LHG, Shrewsbury House, Bushmoor Crescent, SE18. 8 p.m.

23rd October, Royal Naval Reserve, 10.30-16.15.Open Museum Course, Nat, Maritime Museum. £26. 020 8312 6717

23rd October, Instant Play by the Millennium Community Theatre Trust as a FUNraising event. St. Alphege Church Halls. Tickets £5 from Irene Pearce 0181 650 3612.

24th October, Crossness. Open by appointment 9-4 Tel. 0181 311 3711

25th October, Nicholas Hall on Blakeley Guns, 7.00 Open Museum Course, Nat, Maritime Museum. £6.50, 020 8312 6717

27th October, Jonathan Betts, The Longitude Found, Greenwich Historical Society, 7.15 pm. Music Centre, Blackheath High School, Vanburgh Park, SE3

29th October, Frankenstein, Age Exchange Classic Film Club, Bakehouse Theatre, 11 Blackheath Village, SE3. 2pm £1.50 plus tea and cake.

1st November, Diana Rimel on Woolwich Dockyard Goldsmiths College Course, 10.15. £6

1st November, Mary Mills on the Greenwich Tide Mill and Frank Hills, 7.00pm, Open Museum Course, Nat, Maritime Museum. £6.50. 020 8312 6717

3rd November. London Hydraulic Power Co. Tim Smith. DHG, Room C, Museum of London, EC2 6.00

8th November, Wesley Harry on Royal Arsenal Goldsmiths College Course, 10.15. £6

8th November, Mary Mills on It's a Gas Gas Gas, 7.00pm, Open Museum Course, Nat, Maritime Museum. £6.50, 020 8312 6717

9th November, Crossness. Open by appointment 9-4 Tel. 0181 311 3711

11th November, Voyages, the Hidden Collections, 10.30-16.15, Open Museum Course, Nat, Maritime Museum. £32, 020 8312 6717

12th November, In Which We Serve, Age Exchange Classic Film Club, Bakehouse Theatre, 11 Blackheath Village, SE3. 2pm £1.50 plus tea and cake.

13th November, Mary Mills on IA of the local area, Woolwich Antiquarians, Charlton House, 2.00

15th November, Blackheath Scientific Society. Mycenae House. 7.30

15th November, Ron Roffey on Co-op Movement in Woolwich, Goldsmiths College Course, 10.15am, £6

15th November, 7.00pm Open Museum Course, Nat, Maritime Museum. £6.50, 020 8312 6717

17th November, Ice Wells and Ice Factories, Malcolm Tucker. Islington AHS, Islington Town Hall, Upper Street, N.1. 8 pm Non-members asked for donation.

17th November, Christopher Sugg, History of Street Lighting, GLIAS, Lecture Theatre 2 Science Block, St. Bartholomew's Medical School, Charterhouse Square, EC1. 6.30.

21st November, Crossness, Open by appointment 9-4 Tel. 0181 311 3711

22nd November, Rob Sheldon on Lewisham/Greenwich connection to DLR, Goldsmiths College Course, 10.15am, £6

22nd November, Francis Ward on The Blackwall Tunnel 7.00 Open Museum Course, Nat, Maritime Museum. £6.50, 020 8312 6717

23rd November, Archaeology of the Jubilee line in Southwark, speaker from MoLAS, following SLAS AGM, 7.30 Hawkstone Hall, Kennington Road, SE1

24th November, Geraldine Charles, Archivist NMM on Ghosts of Greenwich, Greenwich Historical Soc. Music Centre, Blackheath High School, Vanburgh Park, SE3 7.30.

26th November, Maurice Lyne on Master of the Royal Barge, Lewisham HS, Methodist Church Hall, Albion Way, SE13. 7.45.

26th November, The Wicked Lady, Age Exchange Classic Film Club, Bakehouse Theatre, 11 Blackheath Village, SE3. 2pm £1.50 plus tea and cake.

26/27 November, Wreck Diving 99. 10.30 Open Museum Course, Nat, Maritime Museum. £45. 020 8312 6717

27th November, Post Medieval London Conference, Museum of London, includes London as a Port. Tickets £25 from CNA Mid-Anglia, 34 Kingfisher Close, Wheathamstead, Herts.

29th November, Diana Rimel on Woolwich Entertainment, Goldsmiths College Course, 10.15am, £6

4th December, Brunel's Ships, 10.30-16.15. Open Museum Course, NMM. £26.

7th December, Crossness, Open by appointment 9-4 Tel. 0181 311 3711

9th December, Shipbuilding on the Thames, Chris Ellmers, LAMAS, Museum of London, EC2 6.30.

10th December, Gunga Din, Age Exchange Classic Film Club, Bakehouse Theatre, 11 Blackheath Village, SE3. 2pm £1.50 plus tea and cake.

17th December, Members Evening. Blackheath Scientific Society. Mycenae House. 7.30

17/18th December, The Streets of London, 1660-1870, LVSC Holloway Road. Details Tim Hitchcock, Univ. Herts, Watford Campus, Wall Hall, Aldenham, Watford, WD2 8AT

20th December, History of River Thames Police, Ruislip HS, St. Martin's Church Hall, Ruislip. 8.15. £2


5th January, Chris Ellmers on Museum in Docklands, DHG, Room C, Museum of London Educ. Dept., London Wall, EC2, 6.00 pm

19th January, 8 weeks, The 20th Century Navy, Open Museum at National Maritime Museum, Weds, 10.30-12.30 £37.50 course, 020 8312 6717

19th January, 8 Weeks Maritime Lives, Film Series, Open Museum at National Maritime Museum, Weds, 14.00-16.30 Free, 020 8312 6717

19th January, John King London's Airports, Their First Fifty Years. GLIAS, Lecture Theatre 2 Science Block, St. Bartholomew's Medical School, Charterhouse Sq. EC1. 6.30.

21st January, Discoveries by the Hubble, Blackheath Scientific Society. Mycenae House. 7.30

25th January, Ron Roffey on Co-operative Development, Local to International, 7.30 Hawkstone Hall, Kennington Road, SE1

2nd February, visit to Fishmongers Hall, DHG, contact Bob Aspinall 0171 515 1162

3rd February, Julian Watson on Royal Dockyards, Hall Place. 7.30 £2.50 book through Bexley Local Studies, Hall Place.

3rd February, Gallantry at Sea, Open Museum at NMM, £32 020 8312 6717

12th Febrary, Risings Riots and Rebellions, 10-30-16.15. Open Museum at NMM, Weds, £26. 020 8312 6717

14th February, Short Brothers in Kent, Jim Preston. Gravesend HS, Chantry School, Ordnance R, Gravesend, 7.00

16th February, John Walsgrove, London's Unknown Historic Bridges, GLIAS, Lecture Theatre 2 Science Block, St. Bartholomew's Medical School, Charterhouse Square, EC1. 6.30.

18th February. Weather. Blackheath Scientific Society. Mycenae House. 7.30

19th February, The Yacht Skipper as Ship's Master, Open Museum at NMM, £26 020 8312 6717

24th February, Hidden Collections: Oil Paintings, Open Museum at NMM, £32 Free, 020 8312 6717

26th February, How to Trace your Ancestor, Open Museum at National Maritime Museum, £26 020 8312 6717

1st March, Barbara Jones on Lloyds Registry, DHG, Room C, Museum of London Educ. Dept., London Wall, EC2, 6.00 pm

7th March, Frances Ward, Impact of the Royal Arsenal on the Surrounding Area, Hall Place. 7.30 £2.50 book through Bexley Local Studies, Hall Place.

10/11th March, Drawing on a Maritime Past, Open Museum at NMM, Sats, 10-30-16.15 £45, 020 8312 6717

25th March, Jane Austin and the Navy, Open Museum at NMM, 10.30-16.15 £26, 020 8312 6717

27/28th March, Association for Industrial Archaeology. Ironbridge Weekend. Discussion on current issues. Details Gordon Knowles 01372 458396

5th April, Capt. Daniel on Sundials, DHG, Room C, Museum of London Educ. Dept., London Wall, EC2, 6.00 pm

3rd May, Capt. Burls on Hydrography in the River Thames, DHG, Room C, Museum of London Educ. Dept., London Wall, EC2, 6.00 pm

6th May, Modern Greece and World Shipping, Open Museum at NMM, 10.30-16.15 £26 020 8312 6717

9th May for 8 weeks, Operation Dynamo, Open Museum at NMM, Tues 10.30-12.00 £37.50 020 8312 6717

10th May for 8 weeks, Greenwich at the First Millennium, Open Museum at NMM, Weds 10.30-12.00 £37.50 020 8312 6717

10th May for 8 weeks, The Business of the Sea - film series, Open Museum at NMM, Weds 14.00 -16.30 Free 020 8312 6717

7th June, Edward Sargeant on Frederick Elliott Duckham and the Millwall Docks, DHG, Room C, Museum of London Educ. Dept., London Wall, EC2, 6.00 pm

11th May, 20th Century Warships, Open Museum at NMM 10.30-16.15 £32 020 8312 6717

20th May, Married to the Sea, Open Museum at NMM, 10.30-16.15 £26 020 8312 6717

2nd/ 3rd June, The Story of Time, Open Museum at NMM, 10.30-16.15 £45 020 8312 6717

16/17th June, Falmouth Working Boat, Open Museum at NMM 10.30-16.15 £90 020 8312 6717

17th June, Work of the British Antarctic Survey, Open Museum at NMM 10.30-16.15 £26 020 8312 6717

23/24th June, Drawing on the River, Open Museum at NMM 10.30-16.15 £45 020 8312 6717

5th July, AGM followed by Edward Bramah on the Old and New History of Tea by the Pool, DHG, Room C, Museum of London Educ. Dept., London Wall, EC2, 6.00 pm

2nd August, Mike Webber on the Thames Archaeological Survey. DHG, Room C, Museum of London Educ. Dept., London Wall, EC2, 6.00 pm

6th Sept, DHG visit to Docklands Library and Archive

4th Oct, DHG visit to LT Museum

1st Nov, Paul Calvocressi, on English Heritage's Role in Docklands, DHG, Room C, Museum of London Educ. Dept., London Wall, EC2, 6.00 pm

6th Dec, Christmas Quiz DHG, Room C, Museum of London Educ. Dept., London Wall, EC2, 6.00 pm


COURSES (not too late to join!)

An Introduction to British Industrial Archaeology. Birkbeck College, Mondays from 27th September 2.00-4.00 at Kew Bridge Steam Museum. Tutor, Dr. Robert Carr. £103/£52. 9171 6316627

Citizenship and Urban Change, Goldsmiths College. Jess Steele. Contact 0181 692 7115

Details of National Maritime Museum courses, and those run by Diana Rimel through Goldsmiths are listed in the Events columns since people can attend individual sessions without signing up for the whole course.

5th October - and successive 8 weeks. Horatio Hornblowers Navy, 7.00pm, Open Museum Course, Nat. Maritime Museum. £6.50 per week. Info. from 020 8312 6717

6th October - and successive 8 weeks Vanishing Sail, film series, 2.00pm, Open Museum, Nat. Maritime Museum. Free. 020 8312 6717

Exhibition from 7th October. Greenwich Borough Museum exhibition for Black History Month on Yoruba: The People & Culture. 232 Plumstead High Street (above Plumstead Library).



The Annual General Meeting will be held on 11th January 2000 at East Greenwich Community Centre/Christchurch Forum at 7.30 pm.

Current Officers and Committee are:

Chair - Jack Vaughan

Secretary - Mary Mills

Vice-Chair - Barbara Ludlow (resigning)

Treasurer - Steve Daly

Committee Member - Alan Parfrey

Auditor - Juliet Cairns

Subscription renewals fall due from October 1999. Members are urged to pay as soon as possible in order to avoid the cost of chasing you up! Subscriptions are £10. (we are considering an excess postage charge for overseas members) and should be sent to:

Steve Daly, 5 Pankhurst Close, Garrison Close, Shooters Hill, SE18 4JE

This newsletter was produced for the Greenwich Industrial History Society by Mary Mills.
Views expressed in it are those of the authors and not of the Society.

Subscriptions to the Society £10.00 pa to Steve Daly, 5 Pankhurst House, Garrison Close, SE18.



A number of 'serials' have once again had to be held over in this issue for lack of space. They will continue to be featured in forthcoming issues. Please keep sending the stuff in - it will all appear eventually! Information on the riverside project has also been held over - but for further information please ring Mary.


The Web version has been created by;

.... David Riddle, Goldsmiths College

Space courtesy of Goldsmiths College, University of London